Author Topic: PROPERTIES FIRE INSURANCE >DOUBLED FOR NO APPARENT REASON & WITHOUT OUR CONSENT  (Read 74569 times)

Offline Dorky

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The inspection and valuation is done and charged by a 3rd party property valuation company, not the bank.
But the bank makes it compulsory for the purchaser to buy all kinds of insurance (MLTA/ MRTA, fire insurance) and get the property price evaluated before approving the loan. (Bank want to protect their interests...)

Aisey, U.K., wa tarak nampak lu punya response jadi lama tak balas.
Actually the valuation and property inspection are done by the bank staff, believe me.
The bank staff calls the valuer and ask for the market price os so and so property type and size in so and so location and the valuer will tell the market value for the bank to evaluate whether the home mortgage loan amount is reasonable.
Then the bank staff will travel by bike or car along with camera to the property and take some snapshot at the front, side, back and surrounding (most importantly the picture must clearly show the house number).
The valuer that tell the bank staff of the market value actually earns nothing.
They earn money only when a written report is required by the valuer.
Buy, sell, up, down, gain, gain.

Offline Dorky

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Aisey, U.K., wa tarak nampak lu punya response jadi lama tak balas.
Actually the valuation and property inspection are done by the bank staff, believe me.
The bank staff calls the valuer and ask for the market price os so and so property type and size in so and so location and the valuer will tell the market value for the bank to evaluate whether the home mortgage loan amount is reasonable.
Then the bank staff will travel by bike or car along with camera to the property and take some snapshot at the front, side, back and surrounding (most importantly the picture must clearly show the house number).
The valuer that tell the bank staff of the market value actually earns nothing.
They earn money only when a written report is required by the valuer.

1. The bank incurs telephone bill by calling the valuer, probably just a few cents.
2. The bank incurs transport cost by the staff traveling to the property to take snapshot, depending on the distance, may be 80 cents per km.
3. The bank earns some several hundreds from the customer by informing the customers of so and so valuation as if they are done by professionals but is actually not.

So cost is less than RM5 but charge the customers >RM250++ for property valuation and inspection.
Buy, sell, up, down, gain, gain.

Offline aspenvit

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THE BANK HAS REDUCED MY SUM INSURED FROM RM800K TO RM500K BUT STILL FAILED TO NOTICE THAT I ASKED FOR THE CONVERSION FROM OCCUPIED POSSESSION TO VACANT POSSESSION, WHICH WILL RESULT IN MUCH GREATER PREMIUM REDUCTION THAN REDUCING THE SUM INSURED ALONE.

APPEAL IS STILL IN PROGRESS.
 
Question 1:
Who got allotted a lot of IPOs?
Question 2:
Who can borrow a lot of money to apply IPOs?
Question 3:
Why share price never move up while u are holding it? But nearly 100% move up right after u cut loss?

Online iiinvestsmart

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Aisey, U.K., wa tarak nampak lu punya response jadi lama tak balas.
Actually the valuation and property inspection are done by the bank staff, believe me.
The bank staff calls the valuer and ask for the market price os so and so property type and size in so and so location and the valuer will tell the market value for the bank to evaluate whether the home mortgage loan amount is reasonable.
Then the bank staff will travel by bike or car along with camera to the property and take some snapshot at the front, side, back and surrounding (most importantly the picture must clearly show the house number).
The valuer that tell the bank staff of the market value actually earns nothing.
They earn money only when a written report is required by the valuer.


This method sounds too casual and careless.
Dorky may wish to check with the banks.
I am pretty sure, they will get a valuation report however simple in writing.
For this simple report, they probably has to pay a few hundred.
Better to check the actual process.
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline Dorky

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This method sounds too casual and careless.
Dorky may wish to check with the banks.
I am pretty sure, they will get a valuation report however simple in writing.
For this simple report, they probably has to pay a few hundred.
Better to check the actual process.

Sounds too casual and careless eh?
What about if I tell you last time individual bank branches are required to approve/reject loan within 3 days after collecting all the relevant documents according to ISO standard and banks can actually intentionally delay approval/rejection beyond 3 days and still pass the ISO standard?
Only this time approval/rejection decisions are done centrally that the outcome of a loan can be known within 3 days.
What if I tell you there are some bank officers that know the property/car salesperson may forge false salary slips and still get along with it with one eye closed just so more loans can be granted?
You may need to check for self assurance, but not me.
Buy, sell, up, down, gain, gain.

Online iiinvestsmart

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Sounds too casual and careless eh?
What about if I tell you last time individual bank branches are required to approve/reject loan within 3 days after collecting all the relevant documents according to ISO standard and banks can actually intentionally delay approval/rejection beyond 3 days and still pass the ISO standard?
Only this time approval/rejection decisions are done centrally that the outcome of a loan can be known within 3 days.
What if I tell you there are some bank officers that know the property/car salesperson may forge false salary slips and still get along with it with one eye closed just so more loans can be granted?
You may need to check for self assurance, but not me.


When I meet my friends in the banking sector, I will asked them.   :)
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline Dorky

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When I meet my friends in the banking sector, I will asked them.   :)

Please do.
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Offline Dorky

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When I meet my friends in the banking sector, I will asked them.   :)

And make sure never to accept simple answers like "No lah. Where got?" and then stop there.
Probe further.
Tell them you got such information from a very reliable ex-insider.
If they are honest friends, they will hesitate first but then will tell you the truth.
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Offline Name Change

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And make sure never to accept simple answers like "No lah. Where got?" and then stop there.
Probe further.
Tell them you got such information from a very reliable ex-insider.
If they are honest friends, they will hesitate first but then will tell you the truth.

LOOKS LIKE YOU NEVER WORKED!

BANK OFFICER ===> WHEN ASKED A STUPID QUESTION  ===========> BLANK STARE ..........DID NOT HEAR IT...........NO REPLY.....TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS....
I am the REAL 8th richest man in Investlah at 8:28pm on 8/3/2014.

All others are impostors and are making fake claims

Offline Dorky

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LOOKS LIKE YOU NEVER WORKED!

BANK OFFICER ===> WHEN ASKED A STUPID QUESTION  ===========> BLANK STARE ..........DID NOT HEAR IT...........NO REPLY.....TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS....

 ::) ::) ::)
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Online iiinvestsmart

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LOOKS LIKE YOU NEVER WORKED!

BANK OFFICER ===> WHEN ASKED A STUPID QUESTION  ===========> BLANK STARE ..........DID NOT HEAR IT...........NO REPLY.....TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS....


Let us be nicer to co cky Dorky.   :)


When I meet my friends in the banking sector, I will asked them.   :)


!.  Yes, the bank manager definitely need to have the property valued, by the valuer.  It will usually take about 2 weeks to get this valuation.

2.  Yes, the bank manager has discretion in not having the valuer involved for properties less than $500,000.  But then, how many properties are now less than $500,000.  Even then, the bank manager, most of them, would feel uneasy not to have the property valued by the valuer.  They preferred the valuer's role to avoid complicity in the future.

Common sense will tell us that in matters concerning money and loan, valuation has a place.  It would be extremely surprising should this important process can be by-passed.

Looks like the CFA student is kurang matang.   :( :cash:
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline stockraider

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Let us be nicer to co cky Dorky.   :)


!.  Yes, the bank manager definitely need to have the property valued, by the valuer.  It will usually take about 2 weeks to get this valuation.

2.  Yes, the bank manager has discretion in not having the valuer involved for properties less than $500,000.  But then, how many properties are now less than $500,000.  Even then, the bank manager, most of them, would feel uneasy not to have the property valued by the valuer.  They preferred the valuer's role to avoid complicity in the future.

Common sense will tell us that in matters concerning money and loan, valuation has a place.  It would be extremely surprising should this important process can be by-passed.

Looks like the CFA student is kurang matang.   :( :cash:


not correctloh......u must xtract out the land value & building cost mah......!!
Suppose u own house 22 x 75 terrace house in Bandar utama.....value at Rm 1 million.
U don buy Rm 1 million insurance.....u cover max say Rm 450k for the building components & fitting only mah....!!

Offline Dorky

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Let us be nicer to co cky Dorky.   :)


!.  Yes, the bank manager definitely need to have the property valued, by the valuer.  It will usually take about 2 weeks to get this valuation.

2.  Yes, the bank manager has discretion in not having the valuer involved for properties less than $500,000.  But then, how many properties are now less than $500,000.  Even then, the bank manager, most of them, would feel uneasy not to have the property valued by the valuer.  They preferred the valuer's role to avoid complicity in the future.

Common sense will tell us that in matters concerning money and loan, valuation has a place.  It would be extremely surprising should this important process can be by-passed.

Looks like the CFA student is kurang matang.   :( :cash:


You will only know a fraction of the story.
And I thought you are already familiar with the banking industry, but I guess I was dead wrong.

Don't forget, you are kurang matang too.  ;)
And also kurang educated.  :D
Buy, sell, up, down, gain, gain.

Offline Dorky

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Common sense will tell us that in matters concerning money and loan, valuation has a place.  It would be extremely surprising should this important process can be by-passed.


Ahem, sorry to say this but I honestly don't think you have much common sense.

Those who knows, will know. Those who don't know, but know a bit, will think he knows a lot.
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Online iiinvestsmart

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Ahem, sorry to say this but I honestly don't think you have much common sense.

Those who knows, will know. Those who don't know, but know a bit, will think he knows a lot.

I had lunch with a very senior bank manager who shared this.   :handshake: :cash:


If only you are less co cky Dorky.   :)
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline Name Change

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Ahem, sorry to say this but I honestly don't think you have much common sense.

Those who knows, will know. Those who don't know, but know a bit, will think he knows a lot.

property need to be insured ?
I am the REAL 8th richest man in Investlah at 8:28pm on 8/3/2014.

All others are impostors and are making fake claims

Offline Name Change

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You will only know a fraction of the story.
And I thought you are already familiar with the banking industry, but I guess I was dead wrong.

Don't forget, you are kurang matang too.  ;)
And also kurang educated.  :D

CAN BOTH OF YOU PASS BY ONE DAY...JUST ONE DAY WITHOUT CALLING EACH OTHER NAMES ?
I am the REAL 8th richest man in Investlah at 8:28pm on 8/3/2014.

All others are impostors and are making fake claims

Offline Dorky

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I had lunch with a very senior bank manager who shared this.   :handshake: :cash:


If only you are less co cky Dorky.   :)

I thought you're smart, but again I was proven dead wrong.

Try to really focus all your mental and intellectual power to understand exactly 100% of the statement below.

You may need to check for self assurance, but not me.
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Offline Dorky

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If only 3i was polite to me instead of calling me a CFA student who is kurang matang (regardless of how he sees me, as how I myself see him), I would have discuss with him more.
Alas, as a famous quote goes "If you expect the World to be fair to you coz you are fair to the World; then you expect the Lion not to eat you coz you dun eat Lion."

 :phew: :phew: :phew:
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Online iiinvestsmart

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If only 3i was polite to me instead of calling me a CFA student who is kurang matang (regardless of how he sees me, as how I myself see him), I would have discuss with him more.
Alas, as a famous quote goes "If you expect the World to be fair to you coz you are fair to the World; then you expect the Lion not to eat you coz you dun eat Lion."

 :phew: :phew: :phew:



I would be very surprised that the bank managers or his staff can just give a value to the properties they are going to give a loan / mortgage on without transparency in their valuations.

As I correctly judged, it is only common sense that a valuation has to be done.   Rightly, the valuer is involved.  They have to prepare a valuation report which then forms a part of the whole application process.

That is the "kurang matang" part. 

As also mentioned, the bank managers have the discretion to do his/her own valuations for properties less than $500,000 for some banks.  However, many are also reluctant to do so on their own (that is not willing to take this responsibility.).  They often still get a proper valuation done by the valuer.



Common sense should guide us in our thinking.  Having access to people with expert knowledge on the subject helps further. 
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline Dorky

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I would be very surprised that the bank managers or his staff can just give a value to the properties they are going to give a loan / mortgage on without transparency in their valuations.

As I correctly judged, it is only common sense that a valuation has to be done.   Rightly, the valuer is involved.  They have to prepare a valuation report which then forms a part of the whole application process.

That is the "kurang matang" part. 

As also mentioned, the bank managers have the discretion to do his/her own valuations for properties less than $500,000 for some banks.  However, many are also reluctant to do so on their own (that is not willing to take this responsibility.).  They often still get a proper valuation done by the valuer.

Common sense should guide us in our thinking.  Having access to people with expert knowledge on the subject helps further. 

I have no obligation to correct any misunderstanding of a person being rude to me.
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Offline Name Change

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DORKY ?   :shake:

on the balance of probab_ility; 3i is correct in this particular instance!

Round 1001 to 3i !

Combatants please retire to your corners!

Come out fighting on the next round please !

 :nod:
I am the REAL 8th richest man in Investlah at 8:28pm on 8/3/2014.

All others are impostors and are making fake claims

Online iiinvestsmart

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DORKY ?   :shake:

on the balance of probab_ility; 3i is correct in this particular instance!

Round 1001 to 3i !

Combatants please retire to your corners!

Come out fighting on the next round please !

 :nod:


I just had lunch with the senior bank manager.   :)
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline warren buffet

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bat zhi not ngam... :D

Offline Dorky

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DORKY ?   :shake:

on the balance of probab_ility; 3i is correct in this particular instance!

Round 1001 to 3i !

Combatants please retire to your corners!

Come out fighting on the next round please !

 :nod:

A not-so-smart person would disclose far more than necessary.
I rather prefer to "lose" this round.  ;)
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Offline Dorky

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I just had lunch with the senior bank manager.   :)

Insignificant.
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Offline Dorky

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Ah Bing Ah: Halo, Ah Lian Ah. This Monday buy one hundred thousand shares of XYZ ah.

Ah Lian Ah: Why ah? What so good with super ultra PN17 penny XYZ shares ah?

Ah Bing Ah: Because I just had lunch with a senior manager and he told me this.

 :D :D :D
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Offline Name Change

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Insignificant.

you mean having lunch with me is insignificant?

walau ! eh !

 
I am the REAL 8th richest man in Investlah at 8:28pm on 8/3/2014.

All others are impostors and are making fake claims

Online iiinvestsmart

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DORKY ?   :shake:

on the balance of probab_ility; 3i is correct in this particular instance!

Round 1001 to 3i !

Combatants please retire to your corners!

Come out fighting on the next round please !

 :nod:

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
I happened to have lunch with this senior bank manager today and asked him on this matter.
Sometimes, it would be nice to see co cky Dorky be a bit more humble.
Why does she have to lie, rather than just admit that she doesn't know sometimes?   :D
Never mind.  How can we have so much fun otherwise?   :D :D :D :giggle:


I just had lunch with the senior bank manager.   :)
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline Dorky

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Sometimes, it would be nice to see 3i be less sarcastic and more civilized.
Why does she have to be so rude, rather than just be polite so to promote further discussion?
Never mind.  A wise man would ask where and how Dorky got his information, while a fool (and doesn't realize he is a fool) would straight away brush off contradicting statements as kurang matang.
To really expect a bank manager to reveal the skeleton in the closet (chau si, "hal busuk") of the bank in lunch is certainly uncommon sense to me.  ;)
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Online iiinvestsmart

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Sometimes, it would be nice to see 3i be less sarcastic and more civilized.
Why does she have to be so rude, rather than just be polite so to promote further discussion?
Never mind.  A wise man would ask where and how Dorky got his information, while a fool (and doesn't realize he is a fool) would straight away brush off contradicting statements as kurang matang.
To really expect a bank manager to reveal the skeleton in the closet (chau si, "hal busuk") of the bank in lunch is certainly uncommon sense to me.  ;)


On the issue of valuation, the bank manager said he has to get a valuer to do so, though he has the discretion , reluctantly exercised, to give a value to properties less than $500,000.   

Let us move on from this subject.    :cash:
Itís better to buy a wonderful company at fair price than a fair company at wonderful price.

1.  Understand the business
2.  Business must have DCA
3.  Management with integrity
4.  Buy at a sensible price

Big Fat Pitch.  Focus Investing.  Long term portfolio for capital appreciation and income.

Offline Name Change

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Sometimes, it would be nice to see 3i be less sarcastic and more civilized.
Why does she have to be so rude, rather than just be polite so to promote further discussion?
Never mind.  A wise man would ask where and how Dorky got his information, while a fool (and doesn't realize he is a fool) would straight away brush off contradicting statements as kurang matang.
To really expect a bank manager to reveal the skeleton in the closet (chau si, "hal busuk") of the bank in lunch is certainly uncommon sense to me.  ;)


THAT WAS VERY COMMON 30 YEARS AGO!

NOWADAYS THE GEN Y ARE VERY CHICKEN!

I HIGHLY DOUBT IT THAT THEY WILL TAKE THE RISK AND PUT THEIR CHICKEN LEHER TO BE SLIT AND BLOOD POURED OUT!

SO ROUND 1001 TO 3I !

30 YEARS AGO WILL BE ROUND 1001 TO DORKY !

JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN NOW!
I am the REAL 8th richest man in Investlah at 8:28pm on 8/3/2014.

All others are impostors and are making fake claims

Offline Dorky

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On the issue of valuation, the bank manager said he has to get a valuer to do so, though he has the discretion , reluctantly exercised, to give a value to properties less than $500,000.   

Let us move on from this subject.    :cash:

 ::) :think:

Blah blah blah...
Yadda yadda yadda...

Against me, it is pointless for you to "mati ayam tendang penutup nasi".
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Offline deva74

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Though the post is old and not been read for time, i thought it best to put some misconceptions right.

1. Premiums for Fire Policy in Malaysia is tariff rated (exception is for Industrial Risks where the Sum Insured is in excess of RM 300 Million). Premium is fixed by PIAM. No one knows exactly what fomula they use to determine the tariff but the fire tariff has been pretty static for more than 10 years now. If you analyse the Financials of all the Insurance companies in Malaysia- you would notice that the most profitable portfolio is Fire.

Within the tariff there is different premium for occupied and unoccupied premises.

2. When you insure your building you need to insure against cost of reconstruction. You can google some quantity surveyor reports online like Langdon Seah who issue an annual guide on construction cost. In your example where you borrow RM 1 Million for a property with market value of RM 1.2 Million and reconstruction cost of RM 350K - you only insure for RM 350K. Even if you insure for RM 500K for example and if there is 50% loss - you will be indemnified the full loss amount i,e RM 175K as you have over insured and there is no under insurance at all.

Hope this clears the air - as i note that persons with absolutely no knowledge on Insurance Practice in Malaysia had misguided you with the wrong information.

However if you are unhappy with the tariff rated premium - please convey your dissatisfaction to both BNM and MyCC ( the COmpetition Commission) - though for the time being nothing can be done - if the voices are loud enough - hopefully the proposed detariffication will be hastened.

Kind regards,